Coronavirus
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while i agree that some rules are cash grabs (such as light switch permits), every rule exists because some mouthbreather did something stupid, which goes back to my previous point that people are dumb. if local govts didnt control these things, you'd have a neighbor with a rube golberg house behind a great wall of china fence that looked like it might fall and crush you kids when they play in your yard. he'd blast his nazi music so loud you couldnt think and have tigers in his back yard that would murder your dogs, on occasion.
I joke about it because I work in the Planning/Zoning office and at the same time I rarely pull permits.
But you're exactly right. The rules, regulations, permits, zoning, etc. is not there to protect you, they're there to protect your neighbor or the next person who buys your house and the light switch that you wired in wrong because you didn't pull a permit doesn't short out and burn the house down.
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@wally509 that's great news! I'm happy to hear! I have an eerily similar story. I have a customer that I have gotten to know very well between him and his family. Well, I called last week to check in on them and his son told me his dad (80 something Korean war vet) had been in the hospital for 2 weeks and was stable but not getting out soon. They seemed optimistic about his recovery.
Found out today that my customer passed away this week from COVID-19.
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Found out today that my customer passed away this week from COVID-19.
Sorry for your loss Pat, I can say this is the first death I've personally heard about.
someone said:
A study of pregnant women admitted at New York City hospitals, all of whom were tested for COVID-19, found that 88 percent of those who tested positive had no symptoms. The study looked at 215 women who were admitted to deliver babies between March 22 and April 4. Four of the women had COVID-19 symptoms and tested positive, but so did 29 women with no symptoms at all. Only three developed one or more symptoms before they left the hospital. The findings provide clues to unanswered questions about how widespread the virus truly is in New York City, and what percentage of people who have the virus are asymptomatic. They imply that infection rates in “hot spots” might be much higher than previously believed. The study group was too small to draw huge conclusions, but a similar trend has emerged in another microcosm: About 60 percent of the more than 600 sailors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt who have tested positive for COVID-19 have been asymptomatic.
Interesting statistics from these two studies, though we'll need wide spread testing to find out if these statistics scale out else where.
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just heard about the group of protestors in brookfield.
most of them are not observing distancing and not wearing masks.
A caption from a jsonline article
someone said:
A married couple from New Berlin who wished to not disclose their names attended with masks and joined the group on the sidewalk.
“It is happening – COVID-19 is out there and we have to be cautious – but I think as far as businesses are concerned I think that should be a personal decision,” said the woman. “I think it’s just a decision people should be able to make on their own. And if you come down with it and you die, well then that’s on you. It’s a decision that you have to make. If I die because I came here today, well, I guess...”
She shrugged.
“I guess I said my piece. We’re retired. Social security and fortunately have a pension as well. But there’s a lot of people who are really struggling out there. The disease is real and so is what’s happening to people that don’t have COVID-19 and to their livelihood.”
hey lady, if you want to f*ckin die from this, fine. but what you dont understand is that if you get sick and die, you are likely to make several other people sick and possible kill someone in the process, including your husband.
why are people so dense?
Dan
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I think people are more worried about the economy taking a massive shit than they are dying from a virus.
I won’t ever shit on someone for peacefully protesting (whether or not I agree with them is another thing) it is a constitutional right and should be protected as such
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I won’t ever shit on someone for peacefully protesting (whether or not I agree with them is another thing) it is a constitutional right and should be protected as such
they have a right to protest for sure, i'd never say they shouldnt be protesting. the problem here is that the physical act of protest (gathering in a large number) without following proper social distancing is not a great idea. if they would protest with social distancing, and wear masks, there would be no problem here. they cant even see that what they are doing is counter-productive to what they want.
Dan
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Found out today that my customer passed away this week from COVID-19.
That's awful, sorry for your loss. Like Chris said, this is the first actual death I have heard off line of the media.
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#phase-one
It looks like even after the safer at home order extension is satisfied May 26th that there will be multiple phases that require certain metrics be met to begin opening things back up.
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#phase-one
It looks like even after the safer at home order extension is satisfied May 26th that there will be multiple phases that require certain metrics be met to begin opening things back up.
The funny thing, is phase 1 won't even start until the mid-end of June. They already cancelled school for the rest of the year.
The whole point of this was to Flatten the curve. NOT reduce deaths. The same exact number of infections and deaths occur under the tall curve or flattened curve. We are past overwhelming our hospitals. Open the state, restart the economy. if it isn't you are only further flattening the curve, not saving anyone, at the cost of a lot of peoples livelihoods.
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The funny thing, is phase 1 won't even start until the mid-end of June. They already cancelled school for the rest of the year.
The whole point of this was to Flatten the curve. NOT reduce deaths. The same exact number of infections and deaths occur under the tall curve or flattened curve. We are past overwhelming our hospitals. Open the state, restart the economy. if it isn't you are only further flattening the curve, not saving anyone, at the cost of a lot of peoples livelihoods.
Thank you. How much flatter can you get than not even one positive in the counties around me and 17 in Marathon county which has the significant city of Wausau. Seems that the shutdown was premature if anything. There is nothing to flatten if it never or hardly left zero. Why does rural Wisconsin have the same shutdown as the big cities?
I'm not saying that in large cities there shouldn't be more precautions but killing businesses here for no purpose is stupid.
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Thank you. How much flatter can you get than not even one positive in the counties around me and 17 in Marathon county which has the significant city of Wausau. Seems that the shutdown was premature if anything. There is nothing to flatten if it never or hardly left zero. Why does rural Wisconsin have the same shutdown as the big cities?
I'm not saying that in large cities there shouldn't be more precautions but killing businesses here for no purpose is stupid.
i agree that the same restrictions used in New York City aren't all relevant to Berlin, WI. however, i dont know how you could tell half of everybody they can go back to normal and half they have to stay locked down. our world is too intertwined, even between rural areas and big cities. what about the guy that lives in downtown Milwaukee, goes to the bars and busy places at night, then in the morning drives to Sturtevant (rural) to go to Amazon to work? what about the business in the big cities that produce products and services that those rural business depend on? how do you start defining what is rural and what isnt? how do you define if where someone lives or works depends on if they stay home? is a company in a rural area that has thousands of employees really like a big city and so they still cant work?
The whole point of this was to Flatten the curve. NOT reduce deaths. The same exact number of infections and deaths occur under the tall curve or flattened curve. We are past overwhelming our hospitals. Open the state, restart the economy. if it isn't you are only further flattening the curve, not saving anyone, at the cost of a lot of peoples livelihoods.
are you trolling? you must be trolling.
THE ENTIRE POINT OF EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING IS TO REDUCE DEATHS.
people cant have a livelyhood if they're dead.
Dan
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i agree that the same restrictions used in New York City aren't all relevant to Berlin, WI. however, i dont know how you could tell half of everybody they can go back to normal and half they have to stay locked down. our world is too intertwined, even between rural areas and big cities. what about the guy that lives in downtown Milwaukee, goes to the bars and busy places at night, then in the morning drives to Sturtevant (rural) to go to Amazon to work? what about the business in the big cities that produce products and services that those rural business depend on? how do you start defining what is rural and what isnt? how do you define if where someone lives or works depends on if they stay home? is a company in a rural area that has thousands of employees really like a big city and so they still cant work?
I guess rural is relative. If you live in Milwaukee then Sturtevant is rural. Approx 7000 nearby a huge metro area I would not consider rural. You are right how do you define it? I don't know. Rural to me for example would be counties like Taylor which is almost 1000 square miles and the entire population is 20,000, the largest "city" is Medford with 4,000. And there are zero positive cases. Having the county mostly shut down isn't flattening a curve. It is postponing at great expense. You can't flatten a curve that hasn't even started yet.
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are you trolling? you must be trolling.
THE ENTIRE POINT OF EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING IS TO REDUCE DEATHS.
people cant have a livelyhood if they're dead.
Ha, no, not trolling. I assume you are? You truly don't understand the point of all of this. Besides this, if you think anything the government does, ever, is to save lives, then you don't understand that either.
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The whole point of this was to Flatten the curve. NOT reduce deaths. The same exact number of infections and deaths occur under the tall curve or flattened curve. We are past overwhelming our hospitals. Open the state, restart the economy. if it isn't you are only further flattening the curve, not saving anyone, at the cost of a lot of peoples livelihoods.
But the number of deaths is directly related to the number of cases. So how wouldn't flattening the curve (i.e. reducing the number of overall cases) reduce the number of deaths?? The taller the curve, the more cases, the more cases, the more deaths. Flattening the curve means stopping the trajectory of the number of cases. The whole point of "flattening" the curve is stop the daily increase of covid patients, so those who have it can heal, and we can ultimately (hopefully) stop daily new cases.
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Besides this, if you think anything the government does, ever, is to save lives, then you don't understand that either.
Please expand on this. Are you suggesting that the government is enforcing the stay at home order because they want to see the demise of small businesses and the livelihoods of people? And then the coronavirus came along and they saw this as their chance to enforce such a restriction and to see their evil scheme they've been plotting for years come to fruition? And all of this is being orchestrated from their secret lair in a volcano?
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But the number of deaths is directly related to the number of cases. So how wouldn't flattening the curve (i.e. reducing the number of overall cases) reduce the number of deaths?? The taller the curve, the more cases, the more cases, the more deaths. Flattening the curve means stopping the trajectory of the number of cases. The whole point of "flattening" the curve is stop the daily increase of covid patients, so those who have it can heal, and we can ultimately (hopefully) stop daily new cases.
It's a numbers game. A virus/plague/whatever has a lifespan. The safer at home order SLOWED it's spread, not stop it. The flattening of the curve simply spread the cases out over a longer period of time so the hospitals could keep up. So, yes, I supposed # of deaths could be reduced because we wouldn't run out of ventilators.
Please expand on this. Are you suggesting that the government is enforcing the stay at home order because they want to see the demise of small businesses and the livelihoods of people? And then the coronavirus came along and they saw this as their chance to enforce such a restriction and to see their evil scheme they've been plotting for years come to fruition? And all of this is being orchestrated from their secret lair in a volcano?
Well....short answer, yes. Most things a government does is under the guise of protecting you. They say it's for the best. Granted it's not a james-bondish as you are insinuating, but a great political statement is 'never let a tragedy go to waste' both sides use events to further their agenda to further their political careers, etc. If something does help the public, it's by chance.
Why did Evers extend to the end of May? To protect us, right? Ha, no. That is what he tells the news for sound bites, but it's this: He's a Democrat, and both houses of the state govt are controlled by Repubs. So, he only has authority to keep us locked down for 60 days. This expires on May 11th. By extending to the 26th, he forces the repubs to vote on enforcing it or repealing it. If they enforce it, he gets to blame the repubs for the failing economy, if they repeal it, he gets to blame them for any deaths after the 11th. It's truely a genius political move. If the roles were reversed the repubs would have done the same thing. All politicians are disgusting and the one thing they have in common is that none of them have your best interest in mind.
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Why did Evers extend to the end of May? To protect us, right? Ha, no. That is what he tells the news for sound bites, but it's this: He's a Democrat, and both houses of the state govt are controlled by Repubs. So, he only has authority to keep us locked down for 60 days. This expires on May 11th. By extending to the 26th, he forces the repubs to vote on enforcing it or repealing it. If they enforce it, he gets to blame the repubs for the failing economy, if they repeal it, he gets to blame them for any deaths after the 11th. It's truely a genius political move. If the roles were reversed the repubs would have done the same thing. All politicians are disgusting and the one thing they have in common is that none of them have your best interest in mind.
This,
Both parties are crooks and it's just a big power game. And we are the losers. The parties are just a ruse to divide us, the people. They both keep taking away our liberties under the guise of protecting us.
Also the big winner is China, they sell all of our medical stuff and PPE to us. Maybe it's a retaliation for tariffs? I don't know why anyone trusts ANY information from Chinese Government sources...
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I guess rural is relative. If you live in Milwaukee then Sturtevant is rural. Approx 7000 nearby a huge metro area I would not consider rural. You are right how do you define it? I don't know. Rural to me for example would be counties like Taylor which is almost 1000 square miles and the entire population is 20,000, the largest "city" is Medford with 4,000. And there are zero positive cases. Having the county mostly shut down isn't flattening a curve. It is postponing at great expense. You can't flatten a curve that hasn't even started yet.
The concern I see is that you've already pointed out in an earlier statement that there is under reporting of cases as told by the story about your in-laws(I think?) and that is further proven by what I'm hearing from healthcare workers. This partnered with multiple studies showing the extreme disparity in access to healthcare offered in rural counties compared to metro/suburban areas and it leads to quotable "data" that can't accurately be verified to base a regional type lock down on. As @straight6pwr already pointed out as well, it's not as easy as locking down "red zones" because you'd have to completely shutdown travel in and out of communities in order to effectively stop the spread from someone traveling between them. We're talking total police state at that point which isn't favorable for a rural area where they're commuting a greater distance to patronize businesses. From my retail days I knew that in Rice Lake, WI I had more customers traveling 25-75 miles to utilize the Service Center than I did 1-10 miles but in Oak Creek, WI the pull past 20 miles was nearly non-existent. Opening a community but reducing travel doesn't help the rural community. As far as hospitals not being overrun, I can speak from personal experience right now and know for a fact that healthcare organizations are shutting down specialties and pulling doctors and nurses to COVID-19 units in the main hospitals to handle the influx coming in. So are the hospitals overrun? They're dealing but try and get an appointment with a specialist or GP right now for anything that wasn't pre-existing. How many long term health concerns are going undiagnosed right now because these specialties are being pulled to handle the current pandemic? The affects on the healthcare system is further reaching than we can comprehend right now.
On a daily basis right now I'm dealing with business owners who can't pay their bill's, are reducing hours, etc. It sucks and it's depressing to hear these stories every day and i'm glad when I talk to someone who says "we're doing OK". I don't have an answer for a good way to fix this. I recognize that i'm luckier than most right now and work every day to prove I still deserve a paycheck. Knowing the "facts" about the mortality rate, who's susceptible, etc I have to keep asking myself what level of risk am I willing to accept if my kids get sick or my wife or my parents or in-laws or friends and so on that they could be the whatever percent you subscribe to. The government doesn't have our best interest in mind and I still think a lot of the decision making is based on reducing the risk of lawsuits once this is all over. Again, I don't have a good answer for when we should return to normal. Nobody does. Everyone has an opinion based on how it's impacting them. Nobody would say "let's jump start everything!" if they knew it meant the loss of a loved one but everyone is OK with taking the risk for someone else to lose someone.
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It's a numbers game. A virus/plague/whatever has a lifespan. The safer at home order SLOWED it's spread, not stop it. The flattening of the curve simply spread the cases out over a longer period of time so the hospitals could keep up. So, yes, I supposed # of deaths could be reduced because we wouldn't run out of ventilators.
I think you mean Austin Powerish?
I don't know. I guess I don't agree with that logic. If everyone went on with their lives during this the number of cases would have grown exponentially more than they already have - everyone is exposed to the virus. You keep people at home and now those people are not exposed to it and the number of people who are out and about that could get the virus is greatly reduced. I believe the intent is to keep people from being exposed to it so it can "run its course" through a community with those who had been exposed and when people are able to leave their homes, the virus is no longer in that community.
Maybe your point is that we could never accomplish a true, 100% stay at home policy to completely stop the virus because not everyone is staying at home. So I guess it's finding a balance if not 100% of the people are going to stay at home, then how do we allow things to open to let the world move on while trying to minimize the spread?
This town in Spain did the ultimate stay at home and had zero cases:
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I think you mean Austin Powerish?
I don't know. I guess I don't agree with that logic. If everyone went on with their lives during this the number of cases would have grown exponentially more than they already have - everyone is exposed to the virus. You keep people at home and now those people are not exposed to it and the number of people who are out and about that could get the virus is greatly reduced. I believe the intent is to keep people from being exposed to it so it can "run its course" through a community with those who had been exposed and when people are able to leave their homes, the virus is no longer in that community.
Maybe your point is that we could never accomplish a true, 100% stay at home policy to completely stop the virus because not everyone is staying at home. So I guess it's finding a balance if not 100% of the people are going to stay at home, then how do we allow things to open to let the world move on while trying to minimize the spread?
This town in Spain did the ultimate stay at home and had zero cases:
I knew it was austin powers....but I already typed james bond. haha.
It's OK not to agree with the logic, there is every chance that I'm not right. I'm basing it on what the initial reasoning for 'flatening the curve' was we were told it was to keep the influx lower for a longer period of time to not tax the hospitals and equipment. Now it has become full on eradication mode. That doesn't seem logical or possible to me.
As for the spanish town that locked itself down. Of course if there are no cases and they literally don't allow anything in or out, they wont get any. But how long do they do that? I doubt Covid 19 will every be 100% erradicated form the earth, or even Spain.....so, do they stay locked down forever? It seems that the current way of thinking would say Yes! It is Safer! If it saves just 1 life! So of course, they will eternally stay locked down. Most likely the town will die in a few generations due to unavoidable inbreeding.
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