Does anyone give a crap about handling anymore?
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..because I dont feel like I encounter a proportionate amount of BMW owners that crave good handling. It seems like more are focused primarily on acceleration or styling, which is totally fine since variety and personal customization is what makes being a car enthusiast so awesome, BUT to me, one of the #1 reasons to buy a BMW is for the feel, the handling, and the driving experience.
There are plenty of Audis available for those who dont care about handling
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It's everything that I care about, but I suppose that doesn't help much.
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Snap Understeer said:
one of the #1 reasons to buy a BMW is for the feel, the handling, and the driving experience.
This right here explains it, BMW's handle great from the factory. Not saying every model has been completely awesome, but I'm sure most drivers are fine with how a stock bimmer handles. Now when I eventually have a car worthy of tracking, I think I'll start looking for ways to improve to get that advantage on the track just like you. Thats my observations, especially coming from a dealership employee. I hear all the time about how great customers think there cars handle compared to whatever other makes they've owned before. If all you do is drive your car on the streets, improving handling probably isn't necessary unless your car is old and needs some things refreshed.
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M20B27eta said:
This right here explains it, BMW's handle great from the factory. Not saying every model has been completely awesome, but I'm sure most drivers are fine with how a stock bimmer handles. Now when I eventually have a car worthy of tracking, I think I'll start looking for ways to improve to get that advantage on the track just like you. Thats my observations, especially coming from a dealership employee. I hear all the time about how great customers think there cars handle compared to whatever other makes they've owned before. If all you do is drive your car on the streets, improving handling probably isn't necessary unless your car is old and needs some things refreshed.
Good point there.
I'm dumbfounded by the amount of grip my little E30 can generate on just all-season tires. I can't wait to get a more serious tire.
I have to ask if anyone cares about handling anymore when I am on R3V or other forums and people are asking how they can get maximum rear camber and so forth (purely for aesthetics)
I remember someone asking about how to reduce camber/how to run 0 camber in the rear for more even tire wear for drifting. That's a legit question for sure.
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Yes it is.
Raising the rear end with subframe spacers, coilover adjusters, or spring pads can help bring the camber closer to 0.
The weld-in camber adjustment kits are iffy since they can slip. I would personally only run the ones with a positive-lock design like IE has http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/Z3-suspension-steering/adjcmbkit-lock.html They advertise 1.1 degrees of total adjustment. call it 0.5 degrees each direction. So whatever your rear camber is now figure 0.5 degrees of camber change with the adjusters and use the camber curve chart to determine what kind of height needs to be added to the rear (whether height is added using subframe spacers, spring pads, coilovers etc.) to get 0 degrees camber. If you are looking for 0 degrees camber for drag racing grip or for reduced tire wear for drifting. it may be worth considering running slight positive camber depending on your spring rate and weight transfer so that you will have 0 camber while the car is under power. For a hyper-mileage or freeway cruiser, you would want 0 degrees camber at rest so that you would also have that at steady throttle while driving.
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Personally I think the reason most people aren't asking about how to get better handling is that most of us(weather we care to admit it or not) can't come close to pushing our cars to the limits of their chassis/suspensions. to make matters worse living with a truly tractable car every day to work and back on Wisconsin roads is brutal. think about it, even the serious auto-x guys consider 650# rear springs in e36 about tops if you look at the same car in bmwcup or GT 1120# rears are common place. your back can deal with that and the shell would crack it self to pieces by the end of the summer.
just my OP
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Rowleym said:
Well you know, I'm building my car to drift. Lol. So please go into depth. I would rather have a more narrow tire if I can maximize the grip. Most cost effective.
0 camber = more forward grip which in theory is going to make drifting a tad more difficult but to me it is worth not having to ditch a set of tires prematurely because of camber wear.
I am no drift king but I do know that in drifting, the car setup is custom tailored to how you prefer the car to handle rather than some set formula that another guy figured out. If I had a drift car I would probably prioritize keeping my tire wear even with less rear camber and balance out the extra rear grip with a slightly stiffer rear spring.
But yes, Brian is right about how negative rear camber in the rear helps with handling. Good handling for grip driving calls for some negative camber so that the contact patch is maximized when the tire deforms from the cornering force.
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Here is a nice chart for basic beginner suspension tuning
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