Does anyone give a crap about handling anymore?

[Rowleym]

Is running zero camber in the back possible? I would really like to know that. That would be some good info for sure.

[B C]

Yes it is.

Raising the rear end with subframe spacers, coilover adjusters, or spring pads can help bring the camber closer to 0.

The weld-in camber adjustment kits are iffy since they can slip. I would personally only run the ones with a positive-lock design like IE has http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/Z3-suspension-steering/adjcmbkit-lock.html They advertise 1.1 degrees of total adjustment. call it 0.5 degrees each direction. So whatever your rear camber is now figure 0.5 degrees of camber change with the adjusters and use the camber curve chart to determine what kind of height needs to be added to the rear (whether height is added using subframe spacers, spring pads, coilovers etc.) to get 0 degrees camber. If you are looking for 0 degrees camber for drag racing grip or for reduced tire wear for drifting. it may be worth considering running slight positive camber depending on your spring rate and weight transfer so that you will have 0 camber while the car is under power. For a hyper-mileage or freeway cruiser, you would want 0 degrees camber at rest so that you would also have that at steady throttle while driving.

[B C]

Based on what i have seen, a weld-in camber kit and subframe spacers with corresponding offset diff bushing and rear coilover adjusters should be able to get it there

[industrialsized]

Personally I think the reason most people aren't asking about how to get better handling is that most of us(weather we care to admit it or not) can't come close to pushing our cars to the limits of their chassis/suspensions. to make matters worse living with a truly tractable car every day to work and back on Wisconsin roads is brutal. think about it, even the serious auto-x guys consider 650# rear springs in e36 about tops if you look at the same car in bmwcup or GT 1120# rears are common place. your back can deal with that and the shell would crack it self to pieces by the end of the summer.

just my OP

[Brian.]

Also, you don't want zero camber in the rear. There is a reason BMW put a little bit of camber in the rear. it helps with cornering/traction.

[Rowleym]

Cornering and traction for drifting? Don't you want more grip when you are drifting, and wouldn't that be best with 0 camber?

[Brian.]

Actually depending how wide your rear tires are, you might need camber. Since no one in this forum actually drifts, aside from snow fun, an slight tail kicks. I won't go super in depth

[Rowleym]

Well you know, I'm building my car to drift. Lol. So please go into depth. I would rather have a more narrow tire if I can maximize the grip. Most cost effective.

[B C]

Rowleym said:

Well you know, I'm building my car to drift. Lol. So please go into depth. I would rather have a more narrow tire if I can maximize the grip. Most cost effective.

0 camber = more forward grip which in theory is going to make drifting a tad more difficult but to me it is worth not having to ditch a set of tires prematurely because of camber wear.

I am no drift king but I do know that in drifting, the car setup is custom tailored to how you prefer the car to handle rather than some set formula that another guy figured out. If I had a drift car I would probably prioritize keeping my tire wear even with less rear camber and balance out the extra rear grip with a slightly stiffer rear spring.

But yes, Brian is right about how negative rear camber in the rear helps with handling. Good handling for grip driving calls for some negative camber so that the contact patch is maximized when the tire deforms from the cornering force.

[B C]

Here is a nice chart for basic beginner suspension tuning

http://www.s2000.org/articles/suspension/

[Earl]

Camber does not wear tires super bad as long as the toe is zero. The combination of the two is what wears tire. I had at least -3 up front from June to October and my tires wore just fine.

[Rowleym]

Toe is super important. I lowered my vw and didn't get it aligned or anything. Wore the tires to absolute shit in a couple months. My friend has -3 and he has toe shims, wore just fine.

[Brian.]

I have about -8 degrees Of camber. Zero toe, an I've done over 20k miles on the setup. Hardly any wear

[Rowleym]

-8 DEGREES?!? Holy shit!!

[rampelsauce]

Stance = Cancer. It was neat to look at when it first came about. Now it's just asinine. For this I have created a new word.

"Stancerous"

adjective

Definition:

An over-abundance of camber, low, and "mad tyte style, bro"

Examples:

"Man that E36 M3 is clean, but mother fuck is it stancerous."

"A stancerous horde approacheth! To thine battlements!"

"Yolo bro-mo, my teggy fixin' to get stancerous up in this muh fucka."

[B C]

^^^ LAWLZ!

Theres no denying that a car with a certain ride height, wheel, and tire combination looks absolutely fantastic but unfortunately it is taken to extremes.

I just wonder if this car still would have lost control if it had a stock suspension and alignment setup.

[Brian.]

It's a Lexus who cares. Good to know we have stance hate in this form. Seems like Earl an I will Have some haters

[Earl]

Brian said:

It's a Lexus who cares. Good to know we have stance hate in this form. Seems like Earl an I will Have some haters

It's okay Brian:) We ate building the cars for us. Not everyone else. Plus they like us peronally.

[YoungCR]

Earl said:

It's okay Brian:) We ate building the cars for us. Not everyone else. Plus they like us peronally.

Yep we just tolerate your Stancerous activities. that video was great haha

[rampelsauce]

You guys an your stance-nanigans. But you're both cool guys, so we let it slide. lol.