Coronavirus
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You can't use 40 million as a legit number ZERO predictions came true, so using 40 million is unfair.
For some reason if we start adding up all the numbers of real shit happening, people dying from no care due to shut down hospitals, or suicide, or abuse, or starvation, or anything else, we can't use those numbers.
Let the second wave come. If I could kneel before the guillotine and sacrifice myself to make the country move forward, I would. This isn't about me, or you, or any 1 person, it's about our country and the world moving forward. If it took 40M people for that to happen, then so be it. I would take that gamble. I KNOW FOR A FACT that number is made up and a scare tactic. It's the same fake number technique used by North Korea in their propaganda. Nobody wants to make the hard choices, so if they make the numbers horrible enough, we'll all fall in line.I call utter bullshit.
40 million was their worst prediction, you said 'their worst prediction'. how is it unfair to use that? we arent on our way to 40 million people dead because we have reacted with strategies like stay at home. that was the point!
read some history. the flu pandemic of 1918 killed 20-50 million people. they aren't pulling numbers out of their ass, they are learning from past experiences, science and reasoning. there are people out there that have spent their entire lives studying about disease, pandemics, and how it all works. why do you think you know more than them? i sure dont, and that's why I listen to them.
i agree, many people are dying because of the choice to stay at home and shut down. they've made the decision to shut down because they believe that is the better evil, compared to how many the virus could kill . if this is greatly affecting your life, or ruining your business, or whatever, you have every right to be upset and try to help the situation. but coming here and saying your willing to sacrifice yourself to move the country forward? let 40 million people die? how does that help? all that just for the sake of normalcy? youre talking like you'd be some sort of martyr. well, in your martyrdom you'd likely infect your family and hurt them too. your willing to do that?
please help my understand what you believe is worse than death.
you say nobody wants to make the hard choices. but when presented with the hard choice of staying at home, you come here ranting saying you don't want to. you contradict yourself.
you say 'you know for a fact' they made the number up. whats your proof? you have the documents of conversations between white house officials that prove they are colluding to keep us at home and ruin our economy? you have been in a pandemic before so you know how it goes? please share how you know for a fact.
to argue your side of an argument, you need to base it on something other than 'I just know' or 'there's a conspiracy'.
Dan
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40 million was their worst prediction, you said 'their worst prediction'. how is it unfair to use that? we arent on our way to 40 million people dead because we have reacted with strategies like stay at home. that was the point!
read some history. the flu pandemic of 1918 killed 20-50 million people. they aren't pulling numbers out of their ass, they are learning from past experiences, science and reasoning. there are people out there that have spent their entire lives studying about disease, pandemics, and how it all works. why do you think you know more than them? i sure dont, and that's why I listen to them.
i agree, many people are dying because of the choice to stay at home and shut down. they've made the decision to shut down because they believe that is the better evil, compared to how many the virus could kill . if this is greatly affecting your life, or ruining your business, or whatever, you have every right to be upset and try to help the situation. but coming here and saying your willing to sacrifice yourself to move the country forward? let 40 million people die? how does that help? all that just for the sake of normalcy? youre talking like you'd be some sort of martyr. well, in your martyrdom you'd likely infect your family and hurt them too. your willing to do that?
please help my understand what you believe is worse than death.
you say nobody wants to make the hard choices. but when presented with the hard choice of staying at home, you come here ranting saying you don't want to. you contradict yourself.
you say 'you know for a fact' they made the number up. whats your proof? you have the documents of conversations between white house officials that prove they are colluding to keep us at home and ruin our economy? you have been in a pandemic before so you know how it goes? please share how you know for a fact.
to argue your side of an argument, you need to base it on something other than 'I just know' or 'there's a conspiracy'.
Yep, I did say worst case prediction. Sorry, I misspoke.
All numbers are made up based on projections on things thought to be fact. That's how I know they are made up. The powers that be chose things to use as a baseline to make really high numbers so that it would instill fear. At first, this was done for a good reason, it had to be done to control the populace for what they thought was the best course of action. It also got people like you on board that blindly says, 'yep, those numbers look right to me' and it get's you to say to anyone like me who question them 'WHAT THE FUCK, DO YOU WANT EVERYONE TO DIE!!!???!?!' so it was a win win to do it that way.
If the world or this country devolves into something a kin to a third world hellhole, than yes, that is worse than death. People for the last hundred years have worked too hard and sacrificed too much for that to happen. 'normal' is relative. Normal is what you want it to be. Social distancing, locked in my house, seeing unemployment at over 25% is not a normal I want to be part of. It is absolutely insane that anyone would be content with that. And there are lots of people who are. They think that suckling on the governments teet is what everyone should do with glee.
Make myself a martyr? Ha, no, scrub me from the history books, or leave me in as something akin to Satin. I don't care, it is a feeble gesture to show how serious I am. And, yes, if it takes out my family and everyone I love, so be it. My little group is a small insignificant part of the whole.
If you want to operate on what-ifs and maybes, that is your deal, but you are wanting me, and everyone else to do it to. For how fucking long? Dane county just extended 'Safer at home' until July 12th. JULY FUCKING TWELFTH!!!! That is absolutely retarded.Start the country back up. Let us do what we need to do to survive.
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https://www.wpr.org/dane-county-executive-extends-covid-19-emergency-declaration-july-15
I would just like to point out that they in fact DID NOT extend the safer at home declaration, just the emergency declaration that allows them to receive federal and state funding.
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I don't care, it is a feeble gesture to show how serious I am. And, yes, if it takes out my family and everyone I love, so be it.
i'm astounded. just, wow.
If the world or this country devolves into something a kin to a third world hellhole, than yes, that is worse than death.
me and you have some different priorities in life. you care more about money and cars than the well being of your family.
Dan
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If the world or this country devolves into something a kin to a third world hellhole, than yes, that is worse than death.
A) I don't understand this sentiment. Billions of people live in what we would call the third world. They have problems for sure, but to suggest that their lives are so bad that they're not worth living is pretty disrespectful. On average they're happier than Americans.
B ) I don't see how putting the brakes on the economy for a year somehow means we're going to devolve into a third world "hellhole". Yes, unemployment will remain high, probably for a couple years, but that's hardly an economic collapse.
C) Really hard not to start trolling when you find someone on the internet that is this passionate about something they have no control over.
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i'm astounded. just, wow.
me and you have some different priorities in life. you care more about money and cars than the well being of your family.
You see it as different priorities (so you can make me look bad and stand on your tower and look down at me) I see it as taking away things/ways of life, by forces which have no right to do so. 'Money and cars'? Where did that even come from? I want the economy rolling, people to be productive, things being made, enjoyment being had. In your very narrow minded view, if we attempt that, it is guaranteed death, so you are happy oppressing millions.
A) I don't understand this sentiment. Billions of people live in what we would call the third world. They have problems for sure, but to suggest that their lives are so bad that they're not worth living is pretty disrespectful. On average they're happier than Americans.
B ) I don't see how putting the brakes on the economy for a year somehow means we're going to devolve into a third world "hellhole". Yes, unemployment will remain high, probably for a couple years, but that's hardly an economic collapse.
C) Really hard not to start trolling when you find someone on the internet that is this passionate about something they have no control over.
A. Yes, they do. I'm not disrespecting them. If I wanted that life, I'd move there. I don't want that life, so I stay here. A government force doing everything they can to make this country into that is not fair to any of us.
B. That is exactly what an economic collapse is. I mean, literal definition. Can we recover? Sure! But every single day that these measures are kept in place adds months to that recovery time. We are not talking years, we are talking decades of hardship, poverty, starvation, and just general stagnation of progress.
C. The passion derives from having no control. It's like sitting there holding your breath knowing someone is going to kick you in the balls, but not knowing when. There is no end game. It just keeps going, nothing to prepare for, nothing to plan for. It's the ultimate feeling of helplessness. You can't DO anything. So, yeah, I understand getting trolled, that's OK. The trolls feel that's all they have power to do, like buy toilet paper or whatever. I don't blame people for having different opinions. I don't blame people for wildly hating me for mine. I've spent almost 40 years of my life being generally disliked by the majority of people I interact with, and that is all on me, I get it. Not saying it as a pity party, just trying to convey the way in which I operate. I'm not going to change my views or opinions to facilitate anyone.
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@straight6pwr is arguing life before the economy and @REKIII is arguing economy before life.
Personally - I watch the news and believe what they're telling me because I don't have the energy nor do I want to waste my time thinking everything is a conspiracy theory when it's out of my control and there's nothing I can do about it.
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Just to add to the reality. I found out this morning a good friend of mine in Sweden just died from Covid -19. He was very healthy and a fellow martial artist in his 60s. We've trained together over the decades in Japan and the US. He came down with high fever and difficulty breathing about two weeks ago. His wife rushed him to the hospital where he was placed on oxygen. His condition improved a bit and all signs pointed to recovery. But then he rapidly declined. His wife was called to the hospital today and she manged to be with him at his side when he died. She just let us know.
There will be varied perspectives on the virus and the response, models and projections, proposed cures and snake oil, opportunism and professionalism, frustration and fear, just to name a few. I just wanted to take a moment to share my hope that no more friends, family, and other folks I know die. I'm up to three so far--one of each--which yes is small percentage of all the folks I know. I hope that your numbers also stay low.
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So sorry to hear this! I know when my co-worker was advised by his doctor over the phone to leave work immediately and head to the ER for symptoms, that made things a bit more "real" for me. Fortunately his test came back in about 24 hours and it is not COVID.
The most maddening thing for me is the unpredictability in how people are affected by it.
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You see it as different priorities (so you can make me look bad and stand on your tower and look down at me)
i'm no better than you, we are just different, like I said. we both have a view on this issue that looks to help others, just in different ways. i'd rather more people be alive and struggling with life, than some people dead so that the rest of people can live their normal lives. (normal being defined as: how life was before this started)
and my view is not narrow minded, i understand the possible consequences of the opinion i've chosen to support.
Rich, so sorry to hear your news. It sucks this is hitting close to home for some of us.
Dan
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I don't think that mockery and straw man attacks really does anything to further the conversation along here. Especially given the gravity of the situation we're dealing with.
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I don't think that mockery and straw man attacks really does anything to further the conversation along here. Especially given the gravity of the situation we're dealing with.
It was just some satire
There are much darker things that get laughed at every day.The video was not directed at anyone in particular. You don't need to correct everyone who doesn't agree with the CNN narrative. You confirm the satire of the video if you don't think for yourself and just accept the hysteria created by the media.
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That guy is hilarious. While it might not further the conversation here (we all seem to be pretty level headed in this discussion, with the exception of me), it definitely makes for some much needed laughter. Also, satire, while often mean, can sometimes open the eyes of someone with tunnel vision. We all get it in various parts of our lives.
If you can't laugh at some aspect of a situation, then we really have lost all hope.
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That guy is hilarious. While it might not further the conversation here (we all seem to be pretty level headed in this discussion, with the exception of me), it definitely makes for some much needed laughter. Also, satire, while often mean, can sometimes open the eyes of someone with tunnel vision. We all get it in various parts of our lives.
If you can't laugh at some aspect of a situation, then we really have lost all hope.
Exactly, whether you agree with it or not it is still funny.
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Today at my moms company 25 people were let go (in a company of 175), all remaining employees are taking a 20% pay cut. She is the HR person. My sister also lost her job in March. It took 6 weeks for unemployment benefits to start working out for her. I will not be surprised at all if I lose my job in July or August.
It feels like I know more people who have taken a pay cut or lost their job than not at this point. Fortunately I still dont know of anyone first hand who has gotten sick.
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Pay cuts seems like really opportunistic behavior on the part of employers, but if the alternative is getting laid off I guess it's hard to say no. I wouldn't want to have to be looking for a job right now.
I must be lucky. We were slow at the beginning of the year, but things are busy for us now and show no signs of slowing down. I also don't know anyone who's gotten sick, but stand by my prediction that Wisconsin will get hit hard starting in late June and going though into August at least. Probably 1000-3000 new cases per day. At this point I'd say that we started our lock down a week or two earlier than maybe we should have, but it's easy to say that now having 2-3 months of data to look back on. This is new territory for everyone.
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Pay cuts seems like really opportunistic behavior on the part of employers, but if the alternative is getting laid off I guess it's hard to say no. I wouldn't want to have to be looking for a job right now.
I've had my pay and some benefits cut but it's very much preferrred to losing my job. What makes it feel a bit opportunistic on their part, however, is that I'm being asked to work the same (if not more) hours and still expected to meet the same deadlines. A number of my coworkers are in Europe/Canada where labor laws have prevented my employer from doing the same reduced pay/same hours shenanigans. It has been sort of entertaining to watch management try to explain why they rest of the offices have time off without saying 'because we can'.
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We have still been quite busy as well, that being said we will see what the June-Aug timeframe brings. So far medical device manufacturing/drug filling has seemingly been undisturbed. There have been some changing in focus areas but everything still seems like it’s “full steam ahead”
there are automotive/consumer portions of our business that have definitely slowed down
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We have been finishing up a few projects but everything has been crickets for future projects. Companies are very afraid to lay out dollars for development with such uncertainty. I'm very fearful of what will happen with my group if things don't start looking good. We can weather a storm for awhile, but not forever. 2019 was rough, so we were playing catch up, and 2020 was looking awesome until we got kicked in the teeth by the shutdown.
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