Hello
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Hopefully you and Alex understand why many here arent fans of WCEC.
They are the Millennial douchebags of the local car scene and are equated with the tastes and shenanigans of Automotion where everyone wants to be noticed and everyone wants a gold star just for installing some wheels/coilovers and everyone customizes their cars with the same stupid stickers.
Now, at this point the knee-jerk reaction is to think "man I knew these BMW guys were snobs", only partially true.
The traditional BMW enthusiasm transcends normal car enthusiasm and caters to an appreciation of driving dynamics, precision engineering, balanced performance, smoothness, and good taste.
The kind of people who appreciate the art of driving, the challenge of perfecting a heel-toe downshift, and the satisfaction of car control at the limit.
A WCEC sticker is a badge that says "Hey, I am ALSO a car guy!" and it is ever so frustrating to accept someone labeling themselves as a car guy with stick-on LED accent lights, stretched tires, extreme camber, or other mods that dont make sense to people who care about actually driving their cars.
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Hahaha I thought of you when I read that. The difference is you care about driving but prioritize form and accept the consequences.
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Yeah, I totally get what you guys are saying. And honestly, I agree. This is an interesting point of discussion (and maybe this isn't the place for it), but I associate myself with BMW clubs a lot more than WCEC. I have not even been to a show of theirs yet. Alex is a good friend of mine, and it isn't just because of cars. Certainly not because he runs a car club.
In my opinion, WCEC is what happens when the car culture appeals to people of an age where cars can not financially be a proper hobby for them. Mix in the internet and a bunch of ignorant people, and you get a room full of problems and arguments.
That being said, Alex has a vision that goes beyond that. It should be a place where car enthusiasts can gather and discuss things, its just filled with idiots at times. But the vision is there, I agree with it, and as his friend I support him in trying to make it happen.
I am a proud BMW owner/driver first and a LONG time BMW fan way before I met him or any of you. The sticker doesn't make those people actual enthusiasts, and it certainly doesn't automatically make me a millennial douchebag.
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I like pie.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
Earl said:
[emoji20]
"The difference is you care about driving but prioritize form and accept the consequences."
Absolutely, it brings me great joy to see Earl's 328i being driven hard and enjoyed.
Earl has attention to detail and patience rivaled by nobody I have ever met! (This is not hyperbole).
So when I mention "stupid mods" I hope it is understood that there is a VAST difference between high quality craftwork and attention to detail, in any form, vs. cheap, tacky, and extreme for the sake of being extreme
Hopefully I haven't rustled any feathers, but nobody should be seeking my validation anyways.
-guy with the van and the busted E30
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I guess the point is I'm one of you guys not one if those guys. My heart is blue and white
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Seconding what snap and patsbimmer1 said, (in my opinion at least) the problem is that WCEC, whether the people who started it like it or not, has become associated with the people that take the fun out of car meets and give 'car people' a bad name. These are typically people that neglect all maintenance, cut the springs, chop off the muffler, black out all the lights so they work less, and then show up to car meets in their safety hazards blowing vape clouds in people's faces, swearing, talking sh!t, interrupting announcers, and just generally acting (and driving) like assholes.
Don't worry though, here (from my experience at least) you are innocent until proven guilty haha
The new wheels look good!
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I mean, I've met several of you before and this never came up. It's just a sticker lol
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Naw, I was actually going to ask you guys earlier but I ran out of lunch time.
I will almost certainly be in the market for an E90 M3 late next year, and am kind of obsessed with it. Does anyone have any advice for me on what to look for and where? Common issues, pricing, etc? They will go down some before I get to go after one, but I'm going to take my time and buy the right one when I finally can.
Its literally my dream car so I'm really excited, and I know there are at least two on here
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Ha thanks, I figure I can pretend to be an adult with the sedan, but we all know better.
I hadn't heard of that issue before, makes for interesting reading.
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Yeah that's what I'm gathering and willing to wait out. When I go to buy one it will have to be the perfect one, because I will probably end up keeping it a VERY long time.
Even the rod bearing issue seems to be an issue of neglect more so than faulty engineering. -
As someone who came from two 135i's, my latter one with ridiculous power, I can tell you the M3 is superior in every way other than straight-line power, which you will not miss at all. Do it. Buy it. Do it now.
Rod bearing issue is wildly over-stated on the E9x M3, however, it gets that because the cost of repair on a failed engine is astronomical at around $25k. If you look at the production numbers, and if you go to the track regularly like me and have seen literally hundreds of E9x M3s over the years running hot laps all day and never spinning bearings, you will quickly realize that there just aren't that many of them that grenade. That said (somewhat ironically) there are some performance shops on the M3 forums who will tell you that nearly every car with failed bearings they have seen were due to track cars that do a lot of high RPM downshifting which puts a lot of stress on the bearings.
People have done exhaustive research tearing down these motors, collecting data from people who have reported failed rod bearings, and it appears that less than 1% of cars have the issue. Some people have had bearings changed at over 100k with 0 wear. Other look horrible at 30k. There's a LOT of anecdotal conclusions that we could make about it. But there just is not concrete evidence that is empirical in any way, and I doubt there ever will be. So that said.....
I bought my M3 in utterly pristine condition as several forum members here can attest to when they saw it in person after I drove it back from Virginia. 50k miles original owner, a female enthusiast who drives at VIR, in her 50's who did the proper break-in over the first 1200 miles, and kept the car in like-new condition stored on a checkered tile, sealed garage floor, and that is no exaggeration. Like-new to the point that it's worth it for me to be paying my detailer to come to my house on a regular schedule twice per month all summer long to upkeep the car. That is who you want to buy a car from. If you buy one, get it from someone with money who is also an enthusiast, and preferably a 1-owner with maintenance history. This is a car that the average repair cost is very high based on parts cost alone. You do not compromise when buying a car like this, unless you're a poor schmuck who shouldn't be buying one in the first place because you found the cheapest, $26k m3 you could with 100k miles, and then come on M3 forums asking if you should be concerned about rod bearings (yes this happens on a weekly basis).
I believe if you want to buy the car, you should educate yourself and if you are afraid of things like rod bearing failures, you shouldn't be buying this car. If you can financially deal with the possibility of the engine grenading outside of warranty, then buy it and do like I do which is drive the absolute shit out of it and rev it out all the time listening to glorious V8 noises and killing the environment and dropping gears next to Toyota Prius drivers.
If you can swing it, best bet is to buy a pristine example, and either get a warranty and proactively change rod bearings for $2500 after warranty expires, or buy without warranty and just pay $2500 for new rod bearings right away, and read up on how to change throttle actuators DIY (which is very easy by the way, I've changed them out for other people who own these cars).
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
Awesome, that's what I was looking for! I saw your M3 at the cruise last october and loved it, its pretty much exactly what I want.
I am willing to wait for the perfect one, but the price for those is still higher than I expected to be honest. That said, I want it to be perfect and honestly I would want to travel to go get it, the idea of driving home in my brand new M3 sends tingles up my spine.
I really REALLY need to get serious about making sure this will happen next year. I need to get a house first to have a place to keep it, and then its time to save up. I think financially I can do it and I expect that they will depreciate a bit more in the next year and a half anyway, leaving more money for repairs and upkeep.
But what is a dream worth anyway. I've been hanging out with some friends that have an AMG V8 and an SRT8, and the sound and the power is just intoxicating. But the whole time I keep thinking, I want the better one. Give me the M3.
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I agree with Earl. The cheap ones may get cheaper but your not going to see a decent one below $25k~. Everything below that will be a higher mileage example in less than pristine condition. E46 M3's dipped below $20k for a minute but nice ones quickly shot back up. E36 M3's are in the teen range for a nice condition example. I don't see an E9x M3 falling into those ranges.
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