German Engineering: What's Your Limit
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S5x for me. I am but a simple man
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E46 is still very simple and ultra reliable. I personally put 100k miles(on top of the 60k when I bought it) on the touring I drove for 7 years. Never had to pay anyone to work on it other than an alignment. Preventative maintenance goes a long way. It seems that most people don't understand that these days.
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Whatever the Y/M/M, bring it on!
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i'd say e34/e36/e32 for me, but i have never worked on anything newer. the 'engineering' in those models gives me a 'wtf' every now and then. i really didnt even want to get an e34 over an e30. they are still built fairly simple, but they started to throw lots of dumb electronics/systems that complicated things, without providing much actually improvement. self leveling - pointless. vanos - pointless. ACS in place of LSD - useless and complitcated. HVAC system with multiple computers, too many dials, etc - dumb. EWS - dumb.
Dan
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...HVAC system with multiple computers, too many dials, etc - dumb...
agreed. Something is amiss with the e34. It gets plenty warm, eventually, but it's not so good at defrosting the windshield... I'd like to fix it, but I'm just to damned lazy to do the research to figure out how the whole system works, and then spend even more time trying to diagnose what's wrong with it...
give me some cable-actuated flappy valves and fan speed control and i'll be comfotable, and can I fix it without a 4-page wiring diagram.
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I don't understand the fear of working on new cars. A car is a car is a car. The technology advances but as long as you understand the basic principles and have basic diagnostic skills you can build on those as the tech advances. That might be oversimplifying but there really doesn't need to be any fear of new tech.
And for what it's worth, a lot of this tech is an advancement and has a purpose and not just an over complication of a simple system. You mention VANOS, that was and continues to be and advancement to deliver increase power in a wider power band while delivering higher MPG ratings.
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I don't understand the fear of working on new cars. A car is a car is a car. The technology advances but as long as you understand the basic principles and have basic diagnostic skills you can build on those as the tech advances. That might be oversimplifying but there really doesn't need to be any fear of new tech.
And for what it's worth, a lot of this tech is an advancement and has a purpose and not just an over complication of a simple system. You mention VANOS, that was and continues to be and advancement to deliver increase power in a wider power band while delivering higher MPG ratings.
its not fear of working on, or even the inability to fix something. its the frustration that something complex has broken, and if it had been simple in the first place, it wouldn't have, or would be easier to fix. when my e34's hvac stops working, and i have to dismantle half my dashboard to get at some control computer, its not fun, not rewarding and just a waste of my time. if the hvac system stopped in an e30, i would check a fuse or a relay and be done with it. i'm not any more comfortable in my e34 as far as temperature control than the e30.
Dan
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I was nervous buying my 2008 E82 initially. Just like any car, once you become more familiar with it, it becomes easier to work on.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another N54 or N55 powered car. BMW is still using these motors on brand new models.
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Nothing newer than an e30 simply because I'm not a fan of how bmw's newer than that look. Nothing to do with mechanicals.
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Nothing newer than an e30 simply because I'm not a fan of how bmw's newer than that look. Nothing to do with mechanicals.
thats a whole other can o worms.
Dan
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thats a whole other can o worms.
I live dangerously
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In almost every scenario, newer BMWs don't require additional tools to what you would use on any other older German car. If you have a bunch of extensions, basic metric sockets, ratcheting wrenches, u-joints, e-torx up to E18 and torx up to T60, then the only thing that limits you in regards to a newer model BMW is going to be the electronics in terms of coding.
The coding issue is the biggest hurdle of working on any modern BMW exclusively by yourself (i.e. not having to take it to the dealer for coding when you are done), bar none. Luckily in the N-series space which is when coding REALLY started to become more prevalent for BMW, we now have cracks available for it.
People I think get daunted by the sheer amount of "stuff" that's in the way of the motor, though. If you are a DIYer, then It absolutely takes longer to work on a newer BMW if you have to do invasive repairs/modifications. But if I'm someone like Snap who already sits on cars for years at a time without them driving, then why the hell would I care? It really boils down to taking your time and not being retarded about things.
A few special cases for me - one example is I would not tear down an S65. The clearances are super tight on the internals and you really need to be familiar with it to guarantee you aren't gonna screw it up.
Other than the few outliers, I don't really have a limit.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
Never owned anything newer than my M3, and it's my first OBD2 car at that. I really enjoy the simplicity of the older cars. I will probably never have something newer than an e36 as a project car, but they are starting to get too old to be a viable DD. Yes, if you are super aggressive about keeping up with maintenance they can be great, that's what I have done with all of my cars, but there is always something needing attention as things just naturally wear out and 20+ winters start to take their toll....
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i think it has less to do with being afraid to tear shit apart and more so with i dont want to fuck with it. there is something to be said about (relatively) cheap simplicity
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DrLeadfoot's E46 not starting is a good example. Without an extremely detailed service manual, I wouldn't suspect the hood being popped to be a possible cause for a no-start condition.
I remember the first time this happened with my E82. It was hilarious.
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