The current state of automobiles is no good (bring your emotional support Iguana)

HipMF

All of the American marques used to facelift/redesign their cars yearly up until the late 70s/early 80s. If anything, this is a return to normal.

1) See #5. Not too concerned about long-term reliability, because I can do my own repairs. If your M10/M20/M30/M42/M50/M52 grenades it's self, you just buy another one for a few hundred bucks and drop it in. I think in 20 years the situation will be similar with today's cars.

2) About the same IMO. The internet is great for connecting with other enthusiasts, buying and selling, looking stuff up. Also great for connecting with deadbeats, spreading misinformation, and making you feel bad about your sub-500hp build. Cars have been getting more complicated and integrating more technology since before most of us were even born, and "enthusiasts" have been complaining about it just as long. People are still modifying their cars...

3) Fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource. Repeat. Fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource. Internal combustion engines are also really inefficient at turning chemical energy into mechanical energy. Huge amounts of waste heat is generated and simply vented to the atmosphere. Not much of a choice here.

4) I don't know much about autonomous cars, but I wouldn't mind being able to get around on a daily basis without having to drive. 99% of the roads I drive on a daily basis are boring city streets and interstates that I've driven hundreds of times. On the other hand, I like to drive. Even if autonomous cars become a real thing, I will still own a car and drive it, just not as often. If I had to choose one, it would be driving.

5) Maybe new cars are. I don't want to spend over $10k on car, so I don't really pay any attention to what's available beyond that price. I don't make that much money, but I have a daily and a project car and I'm fairly satisfied with both of them. If you're someone who's obsessed with whatever the best new thing is, you'll never be satisfied with what you have. I'm sure if I had more money, I'd drive better cars, but I don't know that I'd be any happier or better off because of it.

ChrisO

HipMF said:

All of the American marques used to facelift/redesign their cars yearly up until the late 70s/early 80s. If anything, this is a return to normal.

TIL

I'm only 21

HipMF

ChrisO said:

TIL

I'm only 21

Damn kids!

Kidding. It's all about changing the the style of what looks "new" faster so that cars that are still relatively new start to look old and out-dated faster.

From the 'pedia of wikis:

Planned obsolescence, or built-in obsolescence, in industrial design and economics is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete (that is, unfashionable or no longer functional) after a certain period of time.[1] The rationale behind the strategy is to generate long-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases (referred to as "shortening the replacement cycle").[2]

GunMetalGrey

suspenceful said:

As one of the few "modern" BMW owners/enthusiasts on this forum, my N54 seems more reliable than any "M10/M20/M30/M42/M50/M52 etc. powered BMW" on this forum. It seems that everyone with an E30 is constantly fixing it or trying to get it running again for the next meet.

Keep in mind that some of the older cars here are still using their original engine

GunMetalGrey

snap said:

"New BMWs suck. My old M10/M20/M30/M42/M50/M52 etc. powerd BMW ran for 400k miles with only 3 oil changes, a spark plug, and 1 alternator belt replacement, now you can't even drive a new one 100k without some big issue....." What, in your opinion, is the last BMW chassis or engine that you personally wouldn't hesitate owning to 200k or more.

I think the E90 is pressing where I feel normal, but that may simply because that's the newest chassis I've dealt with. I do know that newer stuff requires more software to be able to work on. The bolts and clips are all still about the same.

2.) Is it harder to be a car enthusiast today than it was 10 or 20 years ago and why/why not?

Not at all, if anything it's easier! There are so many forums and other quick resources that you have access to. You can find pretty much any info in a matter of minutes.

3.) VW/Audi claims their next generation of IC engines will be their last. These will be rolled out in 2026. Are your jimmies rustled, or are you anxiously awaiting the electrification of vehicles.

I think electric is cool. Have I personally driven one? Nah, but I would like to. I do think the lack of easy modifications and cool noises will be sad though.

Autonomous cars are scary because they will be hacked/what happens when a computer has to choose between a pedestrian vs its own occupants etc. vs. Human-driven cars are scary because humans are idiots. vs. I will NEVER stop driving my own car ("from my cold dead hands!!")

Autonomy is scary because you are leaving the critical decisions in the hands of the software. The software will choose the least number of people to harm, and that may be you and you have no control over that. I think the overall benefits are massive, but for those benefits to be possible we largely need to eliminate the human involvement in all vehicles and that I'm not a huge fan of.

Cars, in general, are way too expensive

New cars or old cars?
New cars are getting increasingly more expensive largely in part to what I would assume is the ever increasing amount of standard equipment required in new vehicles. Things like airbags, TPMS, Reverse cameras, increasingly complicated emissions systems, and many non required safety options (lane departure, blindspot monitors, adaptive cruise).

wally509

HipMF said:

...

3) Fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource. Repeat. Fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource...Not much of a choice here.

...

Not disagreeing with you but I'm a sarcastic smart-ass and can't help myself...not sure if it warranted a "repeat" because I don't think it's really relevant to this discussion. If VW/Audi said they were phasing out IC engines in 2226, then maybe. The ability to extract it from the ground and/or refine it into something burnable by the current form of internal combustion engines being (effectively) legislated out of existence is, however, a definite concern as that can happen at just about any time in the future.

So we're all going to drive electric cars, and that electricity will be generated by burning coal. Sounds like a plan...

suspenceful

Earl said:

Didnt you kill an n54 already?

Sure did! But I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison to cars on this forum. I don't consider reliability to be expected on a stock motor 700whp/wtq car.

GunMetalGrey said:

Keep in mind that some of the older cars here are still using their original engine

Now I'm actually curious how many of the E30's on this forum haven't done a motor swap. Roll call?

jc43089

suspenceful said:

Now I'm actually curious how many of the E30's on this forum haven't done a motor swap. Roll call?

The only engine swaps I have done were pulling out running engines for better running engines.

My e36 has 295k on the original M50.

I have overhauled an M20 that had an unknown mileage over 280k and the crank and pistons were all still in spec, it just needed a light honing and new rings (I did install a re manufactured head because the original was cracked.)

They don't break unless they are horribly neglected. Most of the swaps are either an M20 ETA to I swap. Or of course the M20 to or M/S50/2. Or the e36 game of M50/2 swap to S50/2.

Jdesign

I have a love / hate relationship for new cars. I get it, I understand why, but I also am nostalgic. Everything has its place, and I look at it from a more "fits the criteria" perspective. The modern car makes sense from the typical modern owner. Its very similar to owning a condo vs. a house.

If you enjoy working on your own car, older cars tend to fit the bill more often due to cost and complexity.

Think of it this way too, a lot of us daily a more "modern" BMW than the one we work on. Why is that?

Enthusiast will always be enthusiast. It goes far beyond the date, tech, fuel as we all have our preferences to "fit the criteria". I believe its more of the emotional experience that makes the enthusiast exist.

The current state of the automobile will always evolve, and I never look at this as a bad thing. With that evolution always comes new experiences and more knowledge.

SteelBlue

Jdesign said:

Think of it this way too, a lot of us daily a more "modern" BMW than the one we work on. Why is that?

I don't know if I can go back to not having a heated steering wheel.

i_love_cars

Jdesign said:

I have a love / hate relationship for new cars. I get it, I understand why, but I also am nostalgic. Everything has its place, and I look at it from a more "fits the criteria" perspective. The modern car makes sense from the typical modern owner. Its very similar to owning a condo vs. a house.

If you enjoy working on your own car, older cars tend to fit the bill more often due to cost and complexity.

Think of it this way too, a lot of us daily a more "modern" BMW than the one we work on. Why is that?

Enthusiast will always be enthusiast. It goes far beyond the date, tech, fuel as we all have our preferences to "fit the criteria". I believe its more of the emotional experience that makes the enthusiast exist.

The current state of the automobile will always evolve, and I never look at this as a bad thing. With that evolution always comes new experiences and more knowledge.

emotion is a pretty key concept here. At the end of the day, the people who love something are always going to care more and be opinionated about it. So those of us who truly love cars are attached to the concept of what we love.

I enjoy driving my E46 more than my E92, but I daily something from 2018. Pretty much in line with what you're saying. We all want to drive the older stuff but many people aren't dailying those things. I also think not having something like an older M3 as a daily, and instead as a weekend car, makes it more special. Same way that bringing a car out of storage feels in spring time. People can say whatever they want - the fact is everyone becomes numb to a certain degree to their routine. Cars are no different - if you drive a classic BMW every day, it doesn't feel as special. Intellectually you know what you're driving all the time, and as an enthusiast you are like "cool" and have some level of appreciation but it's not quite the same as leaving your modern daily for something special to you at the end of the week, or whatever.

B C

You definitely need contrast in your life to enjoy/appreciate things to their fullest

Earl

Up until a few weeks ago my newest car I had ever bought was a 96. I still don't want to even daily something newer than 2000 lol. I'm just weird and really prefer older vehicles for fun cars and daily duties. Maybe as I get older I will change my tune and be accepting of an automatic newer car. At this point I still will not own an automatic car for any purpose.

B C

I thought for sure id be 55 or older before I wanted a soft ride, low end power, spacious interior, taller ride height, easy to enter/exit, quiet etc.

but holy crap, it has hit in my early 30’s

I now completely understand why floaty 70-series sidewall Cadillacs exist.

But again, its about contrast. Too much of a soft cushy thing makes you yearn for the opposite thing

B C

Earl said:

Up until a few weeks ago my newest car I had ever bought was a 96. I still don't want to even daily something newer than 2000 lol. I'm just weird and really prefer older vehicles for fun cars and daily duties. Maybe as I get older I will change my tune and be accepting of an automatic newer car. At this point I still will not own an automatic car for any purpose.

If you ever procreate, safety ratings suddenly become more important. I dont want my family driving around in something that doesnt have side impact airbags. They make a hell of a difference. I never thought id become this guy. Its frightening

Earl

snap said:

If you ever procreate, safety ratings suddenly become more important. I dont want my family driving around in something that doesnt have side impact airbags. They make a hell of a difference

If I'm being honest even at that point I probably won't care about safety ratings. If I did I would 100% drive an early 90's Volvo over anything else.

wally509

i_love_cars said:

emotion is a pretty key concept here. At the end of the day, the people who love something are always going to care more and be opinionated about it. So those of us who truly love cars are attached to the concept of what we love.

I enjoy driving my E46 more than my E92, but I daily something from 2018. Pretty much in line with what you're saying. We all want to drive the older stuff but many people aren't dailying those things. I also think not having something like an older M3 as a daily, and instead as a weekend car, makes it more special. Same way that bringing a car out of storage feels in spring time. People can say whatever they want - the fact is everyone becomes numb to a certain degree to their routine. Cars are no different - if you drive a classic BMW every day, it doesn't feel as special. Intellectually you know what you're driving all the time, and as an enthusiast you are like "cool" and have some level of appreciation but it's not quite the same as leaving your modern daily for something special to you at the end of the week, or whatever.

This ^

snap said:

I thought for sure id be 55 or older before I wanted a soft ride, low end power, spacious interior, taller ride height, easy to enter/exit, quiet etc.

but holy crap, it has hit in my early 30’s

I now completely understand why floaty 70-series sidewall Cadillacs exist.

But again, its about contrast. Too much of a soft cushy thing makes you yearn for the opposite thing

I bought an STS in my early 30's and drove Caddys for.....well, let me know if you want me to tell you how this plays out. I don't want to spoil anything for you.

straight6pwr

i_love_cars said:

if you drive a classic BMW every day, it doesn't feel as special.

i've been driving e30s for over a decade and when I drive mine I still grin like a fricken teenager who's just touched his first pair of boobs.

i wish my second car could also be an e30.

if you could snort e30s, I would.

long live e30s.

jc43089

My wife and I daily drove the e36 coupe with 3 car seats in it. Am I a bad dad? Now we are rocking a 200k mile 1st gen Sienna that I got for 500$, it's an XLE with a VHS player! Until I get the swap van done anyway.

I daily my e36 and wouldn't pick anything else, although it would be nice to fix the door handle so I don't have to lean in the passenger door and open my door every time. I have another handle I just have been busy. It is more fun to drive than my 300HP Volvo.

The Volvo is only an '05 and it is a manual transmission but it's drive by wire, and to counteract the laggy throttle response there is a sensor on the clutch pedal so that the ECU can smooth out clutch engagements. The sensor goes bad and it gets jerky engaging the clutch because the ECU doesn't know when you are engaging the clutch. Why is that necessary? All because they switched to drive by wire to help meet CAFE standards by buffering your right foot input. That's just one example.

It's not the technology that I dislike though, it's the disconnection and lack of "character".

andyhundley

straight6pwr said:

i've been driving e30s for over a decade and when I drive mine I still grin like a fricken teenager who's just touched his first pair of boobs.

i wish my second car could also be an e30.

if you could snort e30s, I would.

long live e30s.

THIS!

WIBIMMERS

The current state of automobiles is no good (bring your emotional support Iguana)