Joined the Club Today
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OBD2. The diagnosis is so much better and the tuning is available if you ever need that. OBD1 is old stuff, it is harder to diagnose and has less fault detection. With OBD2 things can be coded out like the SAP pump etc. I think the best is OBD2 with an OBD1 intake manifold. Especially if you have all of the OBD2 sensors and harness already.
I have 2 OBD1 M50 engines and I will be the first to say that saying OBD1 is simpler and better is on par with someone saying carburetors are simpler and better. When in reality jetting carbs and changing things is not simple at all, and the driveablity is not nearly as good. For example to start my LandCruiser (factory carbureted setup) You have to pull the choke knob out, pump the gas 3-5 times depending on ambient temperature. Then start it. It needs at least 30 seconds of warming up to run properly. OBD1 M50 engines have goofy quirks too like don't make the mistake of starting it and moving 10 feet and shutting it off that quickly, next time it will crank forever to get started again.
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Seems slightly dubious, maybe I can learn something here as well...
With OBD2 things can be coded out like the SAP pump etc.
With ODB1 there is no SAP or EWS, and therefore nothing needs to be done to make it work. Obviously, if you make changes to the engine that require tuning changes, you need to update the tune, regardless of which system you use.
saying OBD1 is simpler and better is on par with someone saying carburetors are simpler and better.
sort of... Maybe I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that all OBD2 cars have EWS, and therefore require that some magic is done with the ECU in order to get it to run, whereas OBD1 is plug-and-play.
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Seems slightly dubious, maybe I can learn something here as well...
With ODB1 there is no SAP or EWS, and therefore nothing needs to be done to make it work. Obviously, if you make changes to the engine that require tuning changes, you need to update the tune, regardless of which system you use.
sort of... Maybe I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that all OBD2 cars have EWS, and therefore require that some magic is done with the ECU in order to get it to run, whereas OBD1 is plug-and-play.
Here is some excellent information about how the system works. Read the PDF that he links to. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1499812-The-OFFICIAL-EWS-I-EWS-II-delete-bypass-and-information-thread!
The EWS II bypass is just a matter of:
Sending your ECU to have it programmed out. Cost $109 (you could also pay more for other tuning options all at the same time). https://www.kasselperformance.com/product/bmw-e36e39-m52-2-8l-ms41-1-tuning/
Installing the original parts, chip key, transponder ring, key under the dash somewhere so when it attempts to look for the key it is successfully found. Cost varies depending on how many of the parts you already have.
If you collect all of the EWS parts from various cars that is ok too and you can realign the EWS module to the DME yourself.
Personally I would pay to have EWS and SAP deleted and plug it in and go. It's not that scary. The reason it can't be hardwired out of the system is that the DME and EWS module communicate digitally not with a simple high low signal.
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I've got parts to support either option, but classically have always done OBD1 stuff.
I can see some benefit to keeping it OBD2, but can also see the convenience of going OBD1 for simplicity.Basically I have nothing to contribute here.
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What I am getting at is that it isn't simpler, diagnostics is a pain in the butt with OBD1. For example, if I let my car idle after about a minute of not touching the throttle it will throw a code for TPS problem, measure it with a multimeter and it operates properly with one circuit rising and one falling. No diagnostics beyond "TPS problem" however with OBD2 live data (which doesn't need a vintage computer with a serial port) you have access to much more information.
Unless you have a vintage laptop with serial port and an ADS interface to see data from the Bosch ECU.
Sophistication is higher with the newer ECU as well. Motronic 3.3.1 (OBD1 vanos ECU) has 12x12 (144) ignition and fuel tables. MS41.1 (M52B28 ecu) has 12x16 (192) tables meaning more resolution.
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^it sounds like you have some weird stuff going on with your setup.
I've had many an OBD1 (swapped or original) M5x/S5x and haven't dealt with most of the things that you are mentioning. -
It’s in
kind of...
Looks like I am having the same problem as @m42b32
The drive side motor mount is not making life easy. I am using the condor speed 24v swap motor mounts. The passenger side goes in, but when I go to let the motor down to get the driver side one on. It’s really difficult to begin and then when I am able to get it on it’s not sitting correct. It’s like the arm is too long. The mounts are in the correct orientation(ask me how I know) but it’s pinching on the side of the mount. Please reference my poorly drawn diagram below.
If I try to tighten the nut on top to “suck down” the mount, it will pull the motor mount off the surface of the subframe and sit unevenly there.
I’m really not sure what needs to be adjusted to make this work. Could the subframe location have possibly moved from being in a front end collision? Didn’t @YoungCR have an M50 in this? Not sure if the motor mount arms are the same for M5X and S5X.
I’ll try to grab some pictures tonight. Need to get the motor in before I can worry about the OBD2 vs 1 issues.
Sigh..
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Sounds dumb but, have you tried jacking up the trans to get the motor to sit level?
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Sounds dumb but, have you tried jacking up the trans to get the motor to sit level?
I don't know if the issue is the motor being level longitudinally more so as the motor needs to rotate clockwise.
But I can try this as well. Never done before, not sure how much of a fight this process is supposed to be.
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^it sounds like you have some weird stuff going on with your setup.
I've had many an OBD1 (swapped or original) M5x/S5x and haven't dealt with most of the things that you are mentioning.I'm not saying the OBD1 setup is bad, but if he already has the OBD2 hardware it would be dumb to spend more money on something that in the end isn't as good.
Mine does have a Dinan BBTB so that might be part of the problem
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Looks like I am having the same problem as @m42b32
The drive side motor mount is not making life easy. I am using the condor speed 24v swap motor mounts. The passenger side goes in, but when I go to let the motor down to get the driver side one on. It’s really difficult to begin and then when I am able to get it on it’s not sitting correct. It’s like the arm is too long. The mounts are in the correct orientation(ask me how I know) but it’s pinching on the side of the mount. Please reference my poorly drawn diagram below.
I mentioned it in my reply on my thread but for continuity, I am having the exact same issue but with the passenger side sitting crooked. I mentioned there how I snugged it down, maybe we could reach out to condor and see what they say?
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Are you guys putting the mounts on the subframe first? It sounds like you're able to make them get on both studs though so I guess it isn't too relevant.
Make sure the motor in straight in the chassis and twist em around a bit.
Are they side specific?
Are they in the right holes in the subframe?
Are trix only for kids? -
I mentioned it in my reply on my thread but for continuity, I am having the exact same issue but with the passenger side sitting crooked. I mentioned there how I snugged it down, maybe we could reach out to condor and see what they say?
I just called them. They said that each case can be slightly different given possible tweaks in the sub frame over the years. They said that they should be attached to the motor mount arms loosely, when the studs go through the sub frame, then the trans should be mounted finger tight to ensure its lined up. Then go back and tighten everything evenly.
I guess I'll have to try again and see if I get any different results. They said 10-12 ft lbs for torque specs.
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Are you guys putting the mounts on the subframe first? It sounds like you're able to make them get on both studs though so I guess it isn't too relevant.
Make sure the motor in straight in the chassis and twist em around a bit.
Are they side specific?
Are they in the right holes in the subframe?
Are trix only for kids?I was told that it's easier for them to be on the arm and then into the sub frame. I tried both ways and neither was really better than the other.
I compared the two as this was also my inclination that they were side specific, they look the same size.
I originally had them backwards. Stud in slot, nub in hole. Realized this was backwards when I looked at some pictures. It hasn't really made a difference.
No they are not, F what you heard
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They said 10-12 ft lbs for torque specs.
That ain't right, unless they're concerned about bolt/stud pull through on the mount.
Those studs are at minimum M8 (13mm wrench) and that yields a 22 or 30 ft lb torque spec (8.8 vs 10.8)Edit: This is no way helps you figure out how they align properly.
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That ain't right, unless they're concerned about bolt/stud pull through on the mount.
Those studs are at minimum M8 (13mm wrench) and that yields a 22 or 30 ft lb torque spec (8.8 vs 10.8)They are 17mm
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They are 17mm
We are true keyboard warriors today.
Torque spec on that (proper to the thread) would be 70 ft lb+, so I would just snug em up real nice like by hand and call it a day.
Especially if a lock nut or lock washer is involved. -
They're probably worried about pulling the bolts through the mounts, since there isn't a washer or anything between the bolt heads and the plastic. I tightened mine down to "good that shouldn't go anywhere"ft*lbs and I definitely pulled the bolt further into the mount a little bit.
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Ive had some really stubborn motors in my days. I would say dont be afraid to shake the F out of that motor and see if they wiggle down in there. Make sure all of your bolts are loose first; ie; mounts top and bottom, and brackets that mount to the motor. Make sure there is enough threads in, but loose enough that everything moves.
Dont be afraid to put your purse down and use your hands.
Theres a few threads on other forums complaining of the same issue. 90% of the answers are shake N bake.
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🥳SOLD BMW E24 633CSI - BMW M30B32 🧪SOLD HCH ES9 - 1.3 LDA
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