i may have to buy an M2
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meh, I don't see any flaming going on at all here.
I also don't see any irrelevance in us talking about the challenges of of overcoming the increasing weight of these cars in a thread about me potentially buying one of them.
and it's my thread god dammit !
1990m3, I think maybe we differentiate on terminology - I say they aren't advertised as race cars, you say they are advertised as track cars. To me, I don't equate "track ready" with "race ready". DEs are not races. There are no prizes and most people there are there because they don't want to race. They just want a relatively safe, controlled environment to push their cars harder than they can on the street and hopefully become better drivers. Racing implies pushing everything to the limit because you have something at stake and a legit competition.
I think the track-ready angle of an M car is perfectly legit advertisement, unless you equate "track ready" with "race ready". Buuuuut that also doesn't mean there isn't a bit of advertising mixed in there that leans towards some potentially unrealistic expectations that you are talking about
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
I was at Autobahn yesterday. Is this the car we're talking about? It says "M235i" on the back, not "M2".
I didn't get the drive it, somebody already had it (and the M4) signed out yesterday.
Pic-10162015-001.jpg
Nope, the m2 isn't out yet. That is not a true m car and more of a sport package.
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I'm not being facetious when I ask this (I've stopped reading up on new BMW models since they all went turbo), but what exactly differentiates the new M models from the base models now?
I know they'll come with more power and better chassis tuning, but could you take take a new 335i, slap a tune and some coils on it and get M3 performance for thousands upon thousands less?
I'm still thinking back to the e46/e90 days where you couldn't take a 328i and ever hope to reach M3 levels of performance, or even a 330i to e46 M3 performance etc..
^^ That was all serious, I'm not trying to be a dick about the newer cars by any means, I'm just super out of the loop lately..
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I'm not being facetious when I ask this (I've stopped reading up on new BMW models since they all went turbo), but what exactly differentiates the new M models from the base models now?
I know they'll come with more power and better chassis tuning, but could you take take a new 335i, slap a tune and some coils on it and get M3 performance for thousands upon thousands less?
I'm still thinking back to the e46/e90 days where you couldn't take a 328i and ever hope to reach M3 levels of performance, or even a 330i to e46 M3 performance etc..
^^ That was all serious, I'm not trying to be a dick about the newer cars by any means, I'm just super out of the loop lately..
I have felt those same feelings, why get an M3/M4 when you can get a 335i with FBO/tune and make sweet power?!?
Fortunately they haven't just done a half baked M car. I think the E36 M3 is more similar to a non-M E36 than an M3/M4 is to a 335.
Heres a little link about some of the differences in the S55 engine over the N5X (cooling, oil system, closed deck block with coated cylinder bores instead of liners...) http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/09/25/meet-new-s55-engine/
it has a 9mm reduction in stroke as well.
The M cars have a clutch type LSD where the 335i has a grandma diff, and im sure there are a LOT of differences but they are so subtle.
For most folks I think a tuned 335i would be all that they need.
The guys that go to the track would certainly appreciate the diff, cooling, and durability upgrades.
S55
N55
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S55 vs N55
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I'm not being facetious when I ask this (I've stopped reading up on new BMW models since they all went turbo), but what exactly differentiates the new M models from the base models now?
I know they'll come with more power and better chassis tuning, but could you take take a new 335i, slap a tune and some coils on it and get M3 performance for thousands upon thousands less?
I'm still thinking back to the e46/e90 days where you couldn't take a 328i and ever hope to reach M3 levels of performance, or even a 330i to e46 M3 performance etc..
^^ That was all serious, I'm not trying to be a dick about the newer cars by any means, I'm just super out of the loop lately..
understood. I have a lot of friends who also think I'm crazy for running a turbo car at the track and are NA BMW purists. Make no mistake, I agree with them but I just love my little 1er and the fact that it just isn't that common to see on a road course so I drive it anyway
A 335 will never be on par with an M with a tune and some coils. The new BMW non-M models are so incredibly soft. My 135 is so soft. The chassis is a lot different too. A 135 saves a little weight over the 335 and most of the M3 bits just bolt right in, so given equal drivers, if you put a stock e92 M3 up against a 135i with LSD, coils, M3 front swaybar, M3 control arms, M3 subframe bushings, brakes, and a tune for some power, you would have a very close race around the track.
a modified 335 probably has no chance of ever keeping up with an M3 unless you sink oodles of cash into it and even then questionable. If the M3 is even lightly modified, forget about it.
The newer BMW non-M cars make amazing street cars, some of the best IMO. You can't beat the reliability of the motor and transmissions on anything N-series related, and you can't beat the communities behind them combined with the tuning they offer. But handling-wise and track-drivability, M is just leagues ahead and it'd cost gonzos dollars to keep up.
That's why I'm not bastardizing the ride quality of my 135i - I'm gonna upgrade the turbo for fun on the street, and do very light suspension because while I track very often in summer, it's better to just buy the proper platform from the getgo if you want to start going suspension-mod crazy. I'll keep the 135i as a daily driver (or replace it with an M2, we'll see because with an upgraded turbo on the 135i i may just not care about an m2 anymore lol), and eventually buy a 4th car to be my dedicated track vehicle.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
That's good to know, thanks for the explanations guys!
In the future, should the 911 blow up on me, a 135i is what I've been thinking of getting.. I just haven't gotten around to doing ANY research on the motors/turbos etc.. Honestly the last thing I remember actually reading about was the HPFP when those were the "new" things lol
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i'll let you take mine for a spin at the meet on Saturday if you haven't driven a modified one before.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
i'll let you take mine for a spin at the meet on Saturday if you haven't driven a modified one before.
Dont let him fool you, he took my 335i for a quick sprint with an e85 mix!
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i'm on it. no freebies then!
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
Now I definitely don't feel bad about further mods to the 135. I will now fully be expecting the M2 to depreciate like any normal M car and be available for significantly fewer dollars in 3 years' time. Maybe by then I'll be able to fit it by upgrading from my 3-car garage to something actually useful like a 10 car garage and a small stick hut to live in out front
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
yup, typical modern-day M buyer. For every 1 true enthusiast there are 10 buyers who are (foolishly) looking for an investment, or care more about side mirrors and engine codes than how the car actually drives. Why people have to be shitfucks i will never know.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i -
I can't understand why anyone would buy any modern BMW expecting it to appreciate. A lot of the market on M cars is cyclical but I can't think of any modern production model that has greatly appreciated beyond original asking price. The 1M has the greatest outlook but any large appreciation wouldn't be for another 10 years at least. That's the 1 (no pun intended) modern BMW that I can think of that hasn't depreciated.
Of just M cars made in the last 20 years, have any really taken off in price? Would anyone have made money on the value of the car if they purchased something new in '95?
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I like how the one guy said he might cancel his deposit and wait now because of this haha
"It won't be a short run, low production car like I thought, screw everything else about it"
This was my thought on buying one. Now that I know that I will be switching to getting on the list for a m4 gts. That for sure will make money if I can still get on the list for only $10k over msrp.
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yup, typical modern-day M buyer. For every 1 true enthusiast there are 10 buyers who are (foolishly) looking for an investment, or care more about side mirrors and engine codes than how the car actually drives. Why people have to be shitfucks i will never know.
I also have a low tolerance for shitfucks
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The best investment is learning, I heard people can become rich this way.
I still want this car, but would rather get the 4gts
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I'll just sell one of my houses, who needs retirement money.
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I'll just sell one of my houses, who needs retirement money.
can live in an M4 GTS. Cannot drive a home to the race track while retired.
2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP - ESS 625 supercharged
2007 Z4MR
2003 E39 M5
2002 E46 M3
2021 X5 40i
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