M20 Turbo => M50 turbo fun.
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Snap Understeer said:
Something that I have been working on over the last year or so (maybe a few minutes every month in my free time) is determining the roll-centers and CG of the car.
The distance between the CG and the roll couple (both imaginary points in space) is called the roll-couple. You want the roll couple as short as possible. The unfortunate truth about lowering cars is that with a typical suspension design, the roll center changes faster than the CG does. In short, the larger the roll-couple distance, the stiffer springs and sway bars you need to control body roll. If you have heard anyone ever mention the idea of RAISING a car to get optimal handling then this has to do with taking advantage of the roll couple. A large roll-couple is not the end of the world but if you can have a short roll-couple and softer springs and equal handling to someone running very stiff springs, then life becomes peachy. Softer springs are a good thing if you can get away with them. The tire will follow the road variations more precisely which improves your contact patch and weight transfer will be more predictable and less prone to snap oversteer. There is much more to it though.
If you have been in a newer BMW or Porsche and were blown away by the way the car handled, yet had a nice ride, then you have experienced a well-engineered suspension setup which takes roll-couple into serious consideration. Again, there are certainly other factors but if you are able to shorten the roll couple as much as possible, it puts you in a much better position to have BOTH amazing handling and soft enough springs for good road compliance.
Why do all drift cars slam the crap out of the car then? I know what you are saying is the truth, but I was just wondering why they do it. You are my hero by the way.
sk8 or die
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It lowers the center of gravity, significantly. BUT, if we narrow down the vehicle further to lets say an S13 chassis, Coupe. Because hatch's are gay as fuck. They change LCA's, UCA's RUCA/LUCA's, tie rods, everything. Everything becomes aftermarket suspensionwise, and is 110% adjustable, and you can get mad tight steering lock like this:
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Rowleym said:
Why do all drift cars slam the crap out of the car then? I know what you are saying is the truth, but I was just wondering why they do it. You are my hero by the way.
If someone slammed a drift car for anything but style, it would be to lower the CG and reduce the chance of the car "tripping" if it caught grip while going sideways and flipping the car. I would have to believe that style is the driving factor in it all since drifting from a spectators standpoint is all about style.
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Snap Understeer said:
If someone slammed a drift car for anything but style, it would be to lower the CG and reduce the chance of the car "tripping" if it caught grip while going sideways and flipping the car. I would have to believe that style is the driving factor in it all since drifting from a spectators standpoint is all about style.
This basically, Drifting originated in Japan, if you ever heard anything about japan, it's all about standing out. Drifting was always about being flashy, low and loud. Go to Japan, any car you ever see that's modified, is millimeter(s) off the ground. Granted their roads allow it. It's mainly for show, but it also serves the purpose of lowering CG, and the entire suspension components are adjustable to a ridiculous degree.
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Rowleym said:
My friend can make me custom LCA's, and I'm getting the e36 rack for a better lock, and I'm using spacers. It should be decent without customs control arms, but eventually I would like to do that. Just need to learn more for dimensions.
Have fun with that R&D. Anyone can make RUCA/LUCA/RCA/UCA's. But they need to be able to take a pounding. Also, don't use spacers to get better lock. That shit will fail catastrophically.
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Also. Maybe a small update if I haven't already mentioned. My ms3x and injectors shipped today. Bought a boost gauge, as well as an afr gauge which I will use with my spartan wideband controller. Bought trans and motor mounts from condor, along with a power steering delete. I bought a e34 pan, but I'm waiting for the guy to ship the damn thing! Hopefully i will swap it in the next week or so.
sk8 or die
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Brian said:
Whoa whoa whoa. Power steering delete, yet you're going to drift this? Have fun. Drifting with no power steering is fucking hard. And you'll probably break a few fingers. I suggest keeping your powersteering. It sucks just driving in general.
HAHA! yeah I am iffy about ditching PS on a grip car (since I want the extra help to save my bacon in case I encounter a spin) but I would certainly be interested in trying to drift a car with no PS on dry pavement to see how hard it is, at least when things get to four-wheel drifting and the front tires are no longer just rolling in a straight line.
Did you have plans for an E36 or Z3 rack? I absolutely love my Z3 rack.
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Snap Understeer said:
HAHA! yeah I am iffy about ditching PS on a grip car (since I want the extra help to save my bacon in case I encounter a spin) but I would certainly be interested in trying to drift a car with no PS on dry pavement to see how hard it is, at least when things get to four-wheel drifting and the front tires are no longer just rolling in a straight line.
Did you have plans for an E36 or Z3 rack? I absolutely love my Z3 rack.
You can try to drift my E28. Have fun. you can't scandinavian flick for shit, even in snow. It's just hard, you can't palm steer it at all. you literally have to gorilla grip that shit.
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Tried drifting an AE86 with no power steering, weighs like 1800lbs with 2 people in it, still was hard. Trust me dude, keep your power steering. It's difficult, even for grip driving. day to day driving is what ever in my car. I don't really care. but anything beyond that, and you'll be begging for powersteering.
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Brian said:
You can try to drift my E28. Have fun. you can't scandinavian flick for shit, even in snow. It's just hard, you can't palm steer it at all. you literally have to gorilla grip that shit.
Its not that bad! Just sucks when you try to go full lock. But I agree your sacrificing ease of car control by doing a ps delete.
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Does your car have power steering chris? mines fully disconnected. Either way Mitch, keep your fucking power steering. If you get rid of it, I swear to god I'll punt your sisters dog. deleting perfectly good power steering, is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard, unless it's for drag racing.
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Brian said:
Does your car have power steering chris? mines fully disconnected. Either way Mitch, keep your fucking power steering. If you get rid of it, I swear to god I'll punt your sisters dog. deleting perfectly good power steering, is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard, unless it's for drag racing.
That's right, you're first name is Mitch, and im pretty sure Kaiser's first name is Mitch too. So that gives us:
2 Dans
2 Brians
2 Ryans
2 Tonys
2 Mitchpeople
YEP, I THINK SO!
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